Carter's greatest sin apparently was that he didn't start a needless war. I'm not in any way defending his handling of the crisis but all of the hostages made it out alive, no? And that failed operation lead to the creation of a whole military apparatus for overseas operations that have served the U.S very well and saved many American lives since.

Now here's the real funny thing that is made even more apparent with the situation today (gas aint getting much cheaper) Carter began a whole host of initiatives for energy conservation and alternative energy sources to get America off dependency on foreign oil. When Opec realized that there was a real shot at this happening, they re-flooded the market with nice cheap oil and it worked. The final nail in the coffin was Reagan, who displayed his stupidity when he declared war on the sun by ordering that the solar panels on the Whitehouse be taken down.

Within 60 days of taking office, Reagan outright cancelled most of the initiatives that Carter began and shelved the rest for obsolescence. If the U.S had stuck with serious alternative energy development initiatives you wouldn't be beholden to foreign dictatorships like you are now (Saudi, comes to mind). Instead a great chance for development was missed and methods of energy production and transport have been pretty much stagnant since the early 80's (22 MPG, whoopee! There are electric cars that can hit 135 mpg equivalent!!)

At any rate, 30 years of complacency lead us to where we are today. Gas is only going to get more expensive (sure, every now and then it might drop to 3.50 a gallon) but it's entirely realistic that by this time next summer you could be paying 4.50 to 5.0 dollars per gallon. Instead of admitting that the status quo is no longer sustainable, what's the solution? Let's turn our food into gas! There are enough calories in one tank of ethanol-based gas to feed an adult for a year. And we wonder about the food crisis that are developing because we refuse to change our ways.

Which Panama should own, because, well.... it's in their country!!

In no way am I defending the current government of Iran, however the Shah was an absolute monster and if anything he should have been put on charges for crimes against humanity. His overthrow should have been celebrated around the world (in many places it was) as his Savak secret police were notorious for Gestapo like tactics, causing people to simply 'disapear' in the middle of the night. By no means does his brutality justify the 'radical muslim theocracy' that is there now, but on the other side of the coin he needed to be removed from power regardless.

I have no problem that the Shah was removed from power.... I do have a problem with who did it. If anything, the U.S should have taken him out because they put him in power. Back in 1953 Iran had a left-leaning, secular government that had been chosen through free and fair elections. Prime minister Mosadegh committed the unforgivable crime of nationalizing the oil company. His great sin was that he was opposed to foreign intervention, and wanted money from Iranian resources on Iranian soil to stay in Iran. That's not so bad is it? Check this out-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadegh

That's the "monster" that the CIA decided had to be dealt with. In his place they placed the Shah (a real monster) which ran a brutal dictatorship and oppressed his people to the extent that there was a massive uprising years later. But we were happy with him because he did business to our liking on the international scene!

1) Didn't get the U.S into any needless wars. In fact, he didn't go to war at all. That's pretty impressive for the leader of a superpower!

2) Embraced and encouraged new ideas and methods for moving the country forward and getting them off oil dependency (most of which was cancelled by his successor)

3) Is seen as one of the best U.S Presidents abroad internationally. His legacy has lived far past his presidency and will continue to for a long time. He is so respected on the international scale that he is able to travel to many places that people like Bush will never be able to (or would ever want to) go.

 

 

hahaha...the ad on this says, "MEET SINGLE PERSIANS HERE"

That just cracks me up.

Man, what about Carter letting the cat out of the bag like that?  Shesh.

No he didn't, but he didn't do anything about the hostage crisis either... except maybe pee his pants over it.



Carter was the god father of shutting down the US oil aparatus. He chased it (and other industries) overseas with his anti business BS. He took every problem that was handed to him and made it worse. Not a single facet of the president's responibilities were better off from his handling.

Oh, and btw, Delta Force was not formed for that operation, that was merely the first operation they did that hit the news. Also, Carter insisted on a inter-service operation, so while Delta force planned it, the team wasn't all Delta troops. Carter is solely and completely responsible for the deaths of those troops and for making the hostage abduction a crisis level problem.



I agree with you here, but the idiot Carter didn't have any plan for a government after the Shah. He is guilty of leaving a government vacuum in Iran. The ironic part is, now the little piece of crap points his stinky finger at Bush. Bush's plan may not have gone as planned, but at least he did have a plan, and it is unfolding.

Carter deserves no defence for his pro communist, anti freedom, policies as president and since.




Is that why the Chinese run it now?


Carter pissed on the bodies of everyone who died building that canal.

He is a living example of why wimps and cowards shouldn't be president.

The actions that Reagan took, right, wrong or indifferent, came after Carter was out of office. 

Carter launched an incursion into a sovereign nation without their permission.  That it didn't start a war can best be attributed to the fact that the folks in Tehran were laughing so hard at the Keystone Kops who ran the incursion.  The whole affair just strengthened the Arab world opinion of America's weakness and inabilities.  That perception grew and was reinforced by ineptness.  That led Arab and Muslim extremists to escalate their war on the Great Satan.  We may have picked our friends poorly, but the replacements were much worse. Vance and Carter were responsible for the bloodshed that followed the return of the Ayotollah.

There is no argument about the mismanagement of energy resources in this country for a long time.  The dependance on foreign oil, however, has nothing to do with it.  We quit building refineries and now we sell Alaskan crude to other countries because we can't process it.  There are enough oil resources within the US borders (and national waters) to sustain most if not all of our demand...but we can't drill for most of it and if we did, we couldn't process it.  Now I gotta pay soooo much for my tortillas!

The Canal went back by treaty which could have been negotiated to get us a better deal...it is one of the most important strategic assets we no longer control.

Nationalizing the oil production is simply the act of ignoring existing, binding, legal contracts with private companies and stealing the production assets with out paying.  But that's ok, cause it's their oil, right?

Carter is seen as wonderful overseas precisely because most of the world has been so very liberal and anti-American for many moons now, that they see Carter as one of "their own".  Me, too. 

Like many liberals, Mr Carter had wonderful intentions and it is too bad that he didn't have the leadership or talent or whatever it would take to make the intentions reality.  But Results are the measuring stick and all the the items above were the results of his presidency.

 

No, he got Ted Koppel a job.

IN prison, they have a term for people like carter - My Bitch. If you are not going to defend your freedom, you will not have any freedom to defend. Carter failed miserably. He is regarded highly by the rest of the world for that very reason. He tried to do single handedly what the USSR could not do - bring America down to a 3rd rate power.

He almost suceeded too.

Arty, you love him? Please take him. We wont mind.

Which is the trip wire that caused me to break my own rule about posting "politically".  The man has no sense of the appropriate.  He is scurrying around the world, this latest against the advice of State, desparately seeking a legacy.  His peace prize was his reward for speaking out against a sitting president and his policies.  But that isn't enough.  Maybe it is that he is angry with Israel for not honoring the Camp David Accords, I don't know, but he is obviously not the least concerned about the "fallout" (hope that doesn't turn out to be literal) from what ever he says.

Doc and Ted: