OPINION
Tales of the Chief
Published on June 7, 2008 By Big Fat Daddy In Misc

The Chief had a cigar box full of photographs taken on his destroyer, the Lansdowne, during WWII. The Executive Officer would grab his camera every time they went to General Quarters and snap some amazing shots. I remember going through them like they were a treasure. There were a lot of shots of the crazy ceremonies involved with crossing the equator...they had some wild traditions, enough to rate a separate post later.

My favorites were the action shots. Sometimes the Chief would tell me the stories connected to certain pictures... and sometimes he said he would tell me when I got older. I accepted that because I knew if he said he would, he would. He beamed with pride as he showed me the pictures of the Japanese surrender party. The Lansdowne was the ship that picked them up at the pier and took them out into Tokyo Bay and transferred them to the Missouri for the ceremony. He laughed at a picture of a Japanese Zero flying so low over the bridge of the Lansdowne that you could count the rivets on the wings. He told me that during the "Mariannas Turkey Shoot", so many of the Destroyers were in screening positions to protect the carriers and cruisers from torpedoes that they couldn't shoot at the enemy planes without hitting the bigger ships. His battle station was a 20 millimeter anti-aircraft gun and the only way they could shoot was straight up and the 20 wouldn't do that.

It was only after watching a news report one evening on the My Lai "Massacre", and a few more beers, that he became so agitated that he finally started raging about the things normal people have to do in war...things no one should have to do. He wasn't condoning the shooting of civilians, but he was upset at the coverage and the tone of it and the fact that it looked like one lone lieutenant was going to take the rap for the whole chain of command. The stories started coming as he unloaded about the unfairness of it: guys have to do what they have to do.

He told about the Skipper of the Lansdowne being so upset because they had had to drop depth charges on a Japanese submarine while there were American sailors in the water. But if the subs had gotten to the South Dakota, or one of her cruisers, there would have been a heck of a lot more sailors killed. The Chief's memory of the effects of a depth charge on the human body never faded. (They got the sub.)

Neither the Skipper, nor any of the crew, were upset about racing through a bunch of Japanese sailors in the water, who had been blown off of THEIR destroyer as the two sides battled for the "Slot"...the Chief had an unforgettable look on his face as he described how they had been churned up in the screws.

The Chief had been the loader on his 20mm until the first action he saw. The gunner was killed; his body still in the harness, his lower half blown away...right next to the Chief.

There was a series of three photos that I had asked about many times, but kept getting put off. This night seemed like the time to get the story. In the first photo, a Zero float plane was upside down under water, the float on the surface. One of the Zero's crew was sitting on the float waving to the destroyer. The other crew member was in the water behind the float. In the second photo they had changed places: the guy in the water had gotten up on the float and the waver was in the water. In the third photo, both Japanese were in the water and the float was full of holes. The story is in between the photos. The Japanese frowned on surrender...in fact, they HATED the very thought of it. The guy in the water in the first photo had climbed up on the float and shot the waver. He had then turned his pistol on the Landsdowne. The Exec had then told one of the 20mm crews to take him out, and they did. I am pretty sure I know which 20mm was tasked for the job.

These images and much worse that our vets brought home with them were hard to bear but bearable so long as they had the support and the acceptance of a "grateful" nation. But when people started to investigate and court-martial and scorn the actions of soldiers in the field, many of the older vets began to get uncomfortable...angry...and maybe a little worried that they would have to evaluate the things that THEY had done. Many of them had secretly harbored guilty feelings about the actions they had been involved with already.

The Chief was the best man I ever knew. But I know he carried a lot of baggage around with him and some of those images were no doubt in his mind the day he died.


Comments
on Jun 07, 2008
There were a lot of shots of the crazy ceremonies involved with crossing the equator...


My dad has told me about them. One had something to do with kissing a fat guy's greased belly or something.    Weird, but I hope those old traditions and ceremonies live on!
on Jun 07, 2008

I think they called him the "King".  There was also some nasty "grog" they had to drink.  I am soooo glad I didn't choose the Navy.

on Jun 07, 2008

It is horrible when the soldiers have to defend themselves for what they HAD to do to survive!  I can't stand that and it gets me mad when I hear it happening! 

 

I have a cousin who served in Vietnam, he hasn't been the same since, and he's a walking liquor store.  So sad.  He can't get the images out of his head.

on Jun 07, 2008
It is horrible when the soldiers have to defend themselves for what they HAD to do to survive! I can't stand that and it gets me mad when I hear it happening!


Me too! Again, me and the Chief don't condone wanton acts of violence against non-combatants, but in the heat of things sometimes it is pretty hard to tell who is and who isn't a non-combatant. I didn't write this to condemn anyone, or judge, only to remember a fine gentleman who carried the memories of terrible things all his life.
on Jun 07, 2008
I am soooo glad I didn't choose the Navy.


My dad didn't choose the Navy. He said they chose him, haha.
on Jun 07, 2008

Some of the men coming back from the desert have some similar stories.

But for some reason even the support of the country doesn't seem to help.

Maybe we aren't raising men so much as "almost men" when they hit 18.  The maturity level is locked up in video games, self-interests, whatever, at the least in "alone time" things.

The Army changed to the "Army of One" to try and lure those guys in because that is the mindset.  But it doesn't make them ready for things like this, or for the aftermath...which is evident in the high rate of suicides and PTSD when they return to normal life.

Isnt' is odd that despite how society changes, despite how our kids mature, or don't, despite the technology, the raise in pay, the benefits, the admiration fo the country, despite all that...war is the same old bitch?

Her wounds turn into the same old scars on every body she touches.

Great article.

 

on Jun 08, 2008

Maybe we aren't raising men so much as "almost men" when they hit 18. The maturity level is locked up in video games, self-interests, whatever, at the least in "alone time" things.

That's an interesting theory, Tova.  I have heard similar ideas before.  I have seen a lot of these young 'uns up close and personal.  They really aren't much different than kids in the past.  Some guys will fold up and become worthless when things heat up, others will amaze with their responses.  The same is true of how they carry those experiences around afterward.  Some will be devastated and become the "walking liquor stores" (great image BTW), or worse...and others will carry on in a productive life without any sign of stress.  Go figure. 

on Jun 08, 2008
Some guys will fold up and become worthless when things heat up, others will amaze with their responses.


It's been my observation that it's usually the bullies that fold when the going gets tough and it's the everyday regular unoticed guy who meets the challenge.
on Jun 08, 2008
That's an interesting theory, Tova. I have heard similar ideas before. I have seen a lot of these young 'uns up close and personal. They really aren't much different than kids in the past.


I am not saying its a character issue. I think its a training/rearing up issue.

Maybe I am seeing things a little diff because we get a lot of PTSD people here at this medical facility. A close personal friend is facilitating that treatment and because it is so prevalent referring treatment to civilians, and I get general info through him.

Time magazine (this week's issue)just published a story about how the military is using serious anti-depressants right now with troops to keep them functioning and going back again and again.

Anti-depressants are given when coping skills are absent or fail. They are "supposed" to be a temporary coping skill..meaning they numb them up enough to let them function..while they are learning REAL LIFE NON CHEMICAL coping skills. (That's not how the military uses them though.)

If they are the same type men as before, then how did the WWI/II, Korea, Vietnam, etc vets ever make it without drugs?

It's been my observation that it's usually the bullies that fold when the going gets tough and it's the everyday regular unoticed guy who meets the challenge.


Perhaps...but I don't think that's the case in a war time scenario. Someone who doesn't have any sort of serious coping skills because they never really needed them in life, those are the people having the biggest issues right now.

It is not a character issue.

Parents today are more apt to step in, do things for their kids, buy things for their kids, make life a little easier than they had it. Sounds good in theory, but when it comes to hard reality, these kids grow up with little or no coping skills.

They don't know how to process watching their bf get his leg blown off, or his guts ripped out, or even how to deal with the real world after spending half a year of more fearing for their very lives every single day without seeing a drop of blood or violence, because they don't even have MINOR coping skills when they come to the service.

I don't think you can really teach someone to stomach those things. But I do think we are doing a disservice to these young men and women by not teaching them how to discover their own unique coping skills BEFORE sending them off to war.

We train them with weapons, in warfare, but don't tell them how to deal when things get emotionally crazy. I am sure the military believes that should already be instilled in them. But the guys making policy are a diff generation, I submit they have no idea how emotionally unprepared these young men and women are for combat.

But its going to get attention, and soon. One way or another.

As it stands right now, some troops wait until it gets so bad emotionally/mentally they need professional intervention/treatment because they can't figure out why the others who saw/went through/experienced the same thing are doing ok.

It makes them feel weak and impotent which is usually something most soldiers despise. Some take their own lives to escape it all...and for what? A simple lack of training.

on Jun 08, 2008

I think I have to agree with you for the most part, Tova.  MamaCharlie agrees with you, she feels there should be some sort of upload training before the fact.  I wonder.  Because of the video games and graphic movies today's kids have been exposed to, they should be more prepared for the things they see in combat than my dad was.  In the forties there wasn't any Sam Peckinpah or Wes Craven to splash the screen with all that slo-mo violence.  But for some reason they are less able to cope.  Or some of them, anyway.   I guess video games and gory movies are no substitute for the real thing.  Thing is, as I said, some will be bothered beyond their ability to function, others will compartmentalize and move on. 

I am not sure any amount of pre-combat training will help.  We train them up and drill them so that when the poo-poo gets in the propellor, they react instinctively until the thought processes catch up.  But up to the point of impact, there isn't any real measuring stick to tell you which guy will fold and which one will function.  Equally, there is no way I can see to tell which ones will be consumed by their experiences and which will grow from them. 

Like just about every other 18 year old, I went to war with images of John Wayne movies as my guide.  A guy gets shot and a little blood trickles out of his mouth while he tells his buddies to tell his girl he loves her...then they all look sad while the medic closes his eyes.  That wasn't how it was. 

And like you pointed out, sometimes it is just the fear, the constant threat, the POTENTIAL for bad crap to happen that goes on relentlessly that causes folks to pop. 

Anyway, we have to be careful not to tell them too much...if they knew what it was really gonna be like, they'd not go.

That's why I said they aren't really that different from troopies in the past...no one knows what it is like until they are in it.  Then you find out how they will handle it.

I know I am confusing here.  I am firmly set on both sides of the issue.  I love soldiers.  I have seen some genuine heroes in action...I have seen some genuine cowards.  I watched The Chief and others like him dealing with their demons and live normal lives, I have seen families torn apart because a soldier could not return to the life he left behind because he wasn't that person anymore.  I served with WWII and Korean War vets who were sparklers...and some who were drunks and violent and worthless.  You know, I got a lotta more to say about this, I think I'll have to do a part two later and try to make a coherant thought.  Thanks for your comments and trying to make sense out of this garble.

on Jun 09, 2008
If you ever get a chance, scan and post them. I would really like to see the pictures.

War is not the santized version we often see in the movies. Those bullets are meant to kill, and often do.
on Jun 09, 2008
I am not sure any amount of pre-combat training will help. We train them up and drill them so that when the poo-poo gets in the propellor, they react instinctively until the thought processes catch up. But up to the point of impact, there isn't any real measuring stick to tell you which guy will fold and which one will function. Equally, there is no way I can see to tell which ones will be consumed by their experiences and which will grow from them.


Yes, this is a good and effective method...it is why actors have so many rehearsals...so when they get up on stage in front of people they won't freeze, and even if they do, the words and actions are such habit at that point, things just flow.

I don't have a problem with the technical side of training. Our troops are doing well in the soldiering part imo.

My focus is the before (training) and the after (PTSD).

I don't think video games and seeing blood does squat for preparation. Why? Because the player/viewer is not emotionally invested. They can walk away at any time, aren't in any danger, and they know it.

What video games/computer/tv etc are doing imo, is keeping people inside more, so they aren't interacting with real life, real problems. Which means they are way behind on coping skills when put into adult situations.

The men you mentioned who drank and became useless...they were using the coping skills they knew....that's the crux. Finding coping skills unique to individuals that are productive and least detrimental to the family and society.

Those guys found booze on their own. Their coping skills were to numb it all which meant putting it off for another day unless they got killed first.

Guess what the military is passing out like candy?

Pills.

To numb it all.

It's just not right.

on Jun 10, 2008
It's a nasty see-saw, Tova. Some times I feel guilty because it doesn't bother me more...sometimes I feel guilty because it bothers me as much as it does. There is a whole shopping list of maladies one can pick from as a result of our little excursions into the unreality of reality.

I think you're right about the video games, ear buds, and anything else that isolates the kids from real world interaction.

As for the military throwing pills at the problem, they been doing that for generations. Covering is easier that solving.
on Jun 10, 2008
As for the military throwing pills at the problem, they been doing that for generations. Covering is easier that solving.


Yeah, and to be honest...I'd love to be in a position some day to affect policy.

I became a reporter because I wanted to shine the light on things that are hidden...believing America would stand up and take notice, then do the right thing.

What I discovered, and what took the shine off the job for me, is most Americans are apathetic when it comes to things which don't actually touch them somehow, me included.

To each his own, everyone can't fight every war...that's why people have diff passions.

Personally I wouldn't feel guilty about it one way or another. You didn't do it, but you are aware of the problem, not burying your head in the sand, looking at the land of denial.